who was still left in the 4th when we spent our pick on sep? I notice you only list the 6th rounders. I think it would be interesting to know who was still left when we drafted sep.

quoting GotSix!:

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quoting TheStallworthSwann:

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quoting GotSix!:

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Funny, you say in this post that trading a sixth to move up 7 spots in the 4th to draft a punter was an 'inarguably, a fantastically smart move' yet in another thread you posted this.....

  Just like many, many dozens of mediocre punters could have taken Berger's position last season -- nothing would have changed for the team or its results, because players like  Berger don't make a difference; they're more or less just warm bodies.  

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Just curious, but why is any of that funny?  Both statements are accurate and factual.  The fact that the Steelers front office made a spendid, sensible trade in 2007 in order to draft Sepulveda does not change the fact that the Steelers front office also assembled a talented enough squad in 2008 to win it all despite having to bring in the worst punter in the league as an emergency replacement.

What should the Steelers front office do, let up on the rest of the NFL when it comes to talent accumulation just because they have the best roster?  Fortunately, they don't think that way, which is why the squad usually has a seemingly endless stream of talent waiting in the wings when standout veterans get injured or leave in contract hissy fits.

During the 2007 draft, should Colbert have said, 'Well this isn't looking too fair, I've assembled a great team with good depth and now I have drafted great players in the first two rounds in Timmons and Woodley, so even though making a smart move for a good longterm solution at punter is available for the taking, maybe I should take a backup OL or some roster fodder instead here in round 4, just to be fair to the rest of the league.'  No, the philosophy is pour it on, and keep bringing in talent and reinnforcements, so that when a starter gets injured and you have to bring in a clown like Mitch Berger, there is ample ammunition to easily compensate.

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lol...you dont see the contradiction there? You kill me TSS, you just keep spouting your nonsense.

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There is no contradiction.  Drafting Ben Roethlisberger when and where they did was a fantastically smart move for the Steelers.  Drafting Daniel Sepulveda when and where they did was a fantastically smart move for the Steelers.  In 2008, Sepulveda went down and the Steelers nevertheless won the SB with an aging, crappy punter from the scrap heap.  If in 2009, Roethlisberger goes down, and Batch and Dixon go down, and the Steelers have to bring in 53-year old Vinny Testaverde to play QB and the Steelers nevertheless win the Super Bowl, does that indicate that drafting Roethlisberger was a mistake?  No, drafting Ben was brilliant, and Testaverde would be a warm body who made little difference, and the Steelers won on the strength of their overall devastating roster talent and depth.  Berger's subbing (miserably) for Sepulveda last season is the same situation.

So would you kindly point out what the 'contradiction' is?  Or perhaps it's just a case of you being so miffed that I see Larry Foote for what he is, that you jump into threads with seemingly dramatic but ultimately hollow accusations of contradictions?

quoting TheStallworthSwann:

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quoting GotSix!:

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quoting TheStallworthSwann:

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quoting GotSix!:

---

Funny, you say in this post that trading a sixth to move up 7 spots in the 4th to draft a punter was an 'inarguably, a fantastically smart move' yet in another thread you posted this.....

  Just like many, many dozens of mediocre punters could have taken Berger's position last season -- nothing would have changed for the team or its results, because players like  Berger don't make a difference; they're more or less just warm bodies.  

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Just curious, but why is any of that funny?  Both statements are accurate and factual.  The fact that the Steelers front office made a spendid, sensible trade in 2007 in order to draft Sepulveda does not change the fact that the Steelers front office also assembled a talented enough squad in 2008 to win it all despite having to bring in the worst punter in the league as an emergency replacement.

What should the Steelers front office do, let up on the rest of the NFL when it comes to talent accumulation just because they have the best roster?  Fortunately, they don't think that way, which is why the squad usually has a seemingly endless stream of talent waiting in the wings when standout veterans get injured or leave in contract hissy fits.

During the 2007 draft, should Colbert have said, 'Well this isn't looking too fair, I've assembled a great team with good depth and now I have drafted great players in the first two rounds in Timmons and Woodley, so even though making a smart move for a good longterm solution at punter is available for the taking, maybe I should take a backup OL or some roster fodder instead here in round 4, just to be fair to the rest of the league.'  No, the philosophy is pour it on, and keep bringing in talent and reinnforcements, so that when a starter gets injured and you have to bring in a clown like Mitch Berger, there is ample ammunition to easily compensate.

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lol...you dont see the contradiction there? You kill me TSS, you just keep spouting your nonsense.

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There is no contradiction.  Drafting Ben Roethlisberger when and where they did was a fantastically smart move for the Steelers.  Drafting Daniel Sepulveda when and where they did was a fantastically smart move for the Steelers.  In 2008, Sepulveda went down and the Steelers nevertheless won the SB with an aging, crappy punter from the scrap heap.  If in 2009, Roethlisberger goes down, and Batch and Dixon go down, and the Steelers have to bring in 53-year old Vinny Testaverde to play QB and the Steelers nevertheless win the Super Bowl, does that indicate that drafting Roethlisberger was a mistake?  No, drafting Ben was brilliant, and Testaverde would be a warm body who made little difference, and the Steelers won on the strength of their overall devastating roster talent and depth.  Berger's subbing (miserably) for Sepulveda last season is the same situation.

So would you kindly point out what the 'contradiction' is?  Or perhaps it's just a case of you being so miffed that I see Larry Foote for what he is, that you jump into threads with seemingly dramatic but ultimately hollow accusations of contradictions?

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lol again.. now we are comparing punters to QB's??? sep is on the field what...6 plays a game??? okay tss. try to keep up here... how is drafting sep in the 4th a inarguably fantastically smart move when, according to you. dozens of mediocre punters could have played for us last year without changing last years results? those are your words.maybe you are just miffed i see right thru you and make you look silly??

maybe i could understand it if he did kickoffs too

maybe i could understand it if he did kickoffs too

quoting GotSix!:

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who was still left in the 4th when we spent our pick on sep? I notice you only list the 6th rounders. I think it would be interesting to know who was still left when we drafted sep.

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Here's the rest of the 4th round of the 2007 draft, after the Steelers took Sepulveda:

Brian Smith, Marvin White, Leroy Harris, Zak DeOssie, Manny Ramirez

Ryne Robinson, Allen Barbre, Baraka 'Obama' Atkins, Marcus Thomas, Doug Free

Fred Bennet, Mansfield Wrotto, Jermon Bushrod, Dashon Goldson, Kareem Brown

Chris Davis, Scott Chandler, Josh Beekman, and Brannon Condre,

And these were the compensatory picks following round 4 and before round 5:

Ryan McBean, Martez Miller, Antwan Barnes, Joe Cohen, Clint Session, LeRon McClain.

Obviously, that's a big collection of 'Who?' type players.  People may get excited about Ravens FB LeRon McClain being on this list, but let's keep him in perspective -- in 3 NFL seasons he's averaging 1 reception per game, 25 yards rushing per game, and .3 touchdowns per game; this season in 7 games he's averaging 10 yards rushing and has 1 touchdown.  Do any of those players, including McClain, justify not drafting Sepulveda in round 4? Nope.

In round 5, of the 41 players taken in the regular round and the compensatory stage, only 3 or 4 players even have recognizable names, including Steve Breaston, William Gay, and Troy Smith -- and Gay is head and shoulders the best player taken in that round.

The pititful round 6 is listed above.

In round 7, of the 45 players selected with regular or compensatory picks, only a handful are even on NFL rosters, most notably Giants RB Amhad Bradshaw (who was the 250th player taken that year).

 

What I am doing is calling a spade a spade.  Colbert is not the infallable, perfect GM some here make him out to be.  He is average at best.  And succeeds on the Roethlisberger pick and the fact he has ownership that strongly believes in stability.

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I think this is where you lose the vast majority of the message board.  No one is saying that Colbert is infallible, perfect, etc, etc... He's just very, very good at his job, and an incredibly good fit for the Steelers.  The truth is, I don't think you understand how the entire Steelers front office works.

The 'front office' of the Steelers consists of 3 groups working together...think of it as the holy trinity.  Colbert is in charge of evaluating talent, player contractis, and managing the cap as far as I can tell.  The coaches, led by Tomlin, are in charge of the 'needs' of the offense and defense.  They tell Colbert what they are looking for in the players, how to weight the value of players,etc,etc.  Tomlin's influence has grown, and if you are paying attention you can definately see his influence in the draft and free agency moves.  Finally, the owners are in charge of the overall philosophy and 'Big Picture'.  When you keep pointing out that Rooney 'over-ruled' Colbert in drafting Big Ben, you are missing the point...it was Rooney's job to see that a franchise QB was necessary even though the coaches, from their perspective, had more pressing needs and a serviceable QB.  Colbert had done his job and evaluated that Big Ben was, in fact, a franchise QB.

So, maybe in your mind, this diminishes Colbert's value.  However, many people in Colbert's position wouldn't stand for giving the coaches and owners a part in these decisions, or be able to put together a workable system for including their input.  You have to understand that even though the Steelers put in an incredible amount of work into preparing for the draft, they have a very limited time to actually make a decision once they are on the clock.  To be able to get the input from the coaches, owners, scouts, and evaluate what's on the board, all in time to make a selection is an incredible feat, and I think you underestimate just how good of a job Colbert does in doing it.

The Steelers front office is one of the best in the NFL.  You can evaluate it by looking at record, Super Bowl wins, or even just looking at the talent the Steelers have on the field. 

 

 

quoting pitterpatter:

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What I am doing is calling a spade a spade.  Colbert is not the infallable, perfect GM some here make him out to be.  He is average at best.  And succeeds on the Roethlisberger pick and the fact he has ownership that strongly believes in stability.

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I think this is where you lose the vast majority of the message board.  No one is saying that Colbert is infallible, perfect, etc, etc... He's just very, very good at his job, and an incredibly good fit for the Steelers.  The truth is, I don't think you understand how the entire Steelers front office works.

The 'front office' of the Steelers consists of 3 groups working together...think of it as the holy trinity.  Colbert is in charge of evaluating talent, player contractis, and managing the cap as far as I can tell.  The coaches, led by Tomlin, are in charge of the 'needs' of the offense and defense.  They tell Colbert what they are looking for in the players, how to weight the value of players,etc,etc.  Tomlin's influence has grown, and if you are paying attention you can definately see his influence in the draft and free agency moves.  Finally, the owners are in charge of the overall philosophy and 'Big Picture'.  When you keep pointing out that Rooney 'over-ruled' Colbert in drafting Big Ben, you are missing the point...it was Rooney's job to see that a franchise QB was necessary even though the coaches, from their perspective, had more pressing needs and a serviceable QB.  Colbert had done his job and evaluated that Big Ben was, in fact, a franchise QB.

So, maybe in your mind, this diminishes Colbert's value.  However, many people in Colbert's position wouldn't stand for giving the coaches and owners a part in these decisions, or be able to put together a workable system for including their input.  You have to understand that even though the Steelers put in an incredible amount of work into preparing for the draft, they have a very limited time to actually make a decision once they are on the clock.  To be able to get the input from the coaches, owners, scouts, and evaluate what's on the board, all in time to make a selection is an incredible feat, and I think you underestimate just how good of a job Colbert does in doing it.

The Steelers front office is one of the best in the NFL.  You can evaluate it by looking at record, Super Bowl wins, or even just looking at the talent the Steelers have on the field. 

 

 

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Excellent points. Seems that some fans are looking for perfection where there is none to be had. I don't think this organization makes many decisions without getting input from all the people involved. This might be people within or outside the organization.

  Like they always say, when all else fails, drop back five yards and punt.

quoting pitterpatter:

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What I am doing is calling a spade a spade.  Colbert is not the infallable, perfect GM some here make him out to be.  He is average at best.  And succeeds on the Roethlisberger pick and the fact he has ownership that strongly believes in stability.

---

I think this is where you lose the vast majority of the message board.  No one is saying that Colbert is infallible, perfect, etc, etc... He's just very, very good at his job, and an incredibly good fit for the Steelers.  The truth is, I don't think you understand how the entire Steelers front office works.

The 'front office' of the Steelers consists of 3 groups working together...think of it as the holy trinity.  Colbert is in charge of evaluating talent, player contractis, and managing the cap as far as I can tell.  The coaches, led by Tomlin, are in charge of the 'needs' of the offense and defense.  They tell Colbert what they are looking for in the players, how to weight the value of players,etc,etc.  Tomlin's influence has grown, and if you are paying attention you can definately see his influence in the draft and free agency moves.  Finally, the owners are in charge of the overall philosophy and 'Big Picture'.  When you keep pointing out that Rooney 'over-ruled' Colbert in drafting Big Ben, you are missing the point...it was Rooney's job to see that a franchise QB was necessary even though the coaches, from their perspective, had more pressing needs and a serviceable QB.  Colbert had done his job and evaluated that Big Ben was, in fact, a franchise QB.

So, maybe in your mind, this diminishes Colbert's value.  However, many people in Colbert's position wouldn't stand for giving the coaches and owners a part in these decisions, or be able to put together a workable system for including their input.  You have to understand that even though the Steelers put in an incredible amount of work into preparing for the draft, they have a very limited time to actually make a decision once they are on the clock.  To be able to get the input from the coaches, owners, scouts, and evaluate what's on the board, all in time to make a selection is an incredible feat, and I think you underestimate just how good of a job Colbert does in doing it.

The Steelers front office is one of the best in the NFL.  You can evaluate it by looking at record, Super Bowl wins, or even just looking at the talent the Steelers have on the field. 

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Come on.... that season three QB's were ''evaluated'' by everyone and their mother as potential franchise QB and top-10 selections.

Maybe if Colbert had correctly put Roethlsiberger ahead of Manning and Rivers and selected him #1 overall would I give him credit in his ''evaluation process''.  But he basically got who was left.  And the rest is history,  Roethlisberger has lived up to his potential and more and this franchise should be a winner for the next decade.

It all came down to Shawn Andrews, a right tackle, vs. a QB when we sat with Tommy Maddox as our guy.  I don't believe Rooney had to just overrule Cowher.  I think the concensus between Cowher and Colbert was Shawn Andrews and the Owner stepped in and picked Roethlisberger.  That's my take on the situation.  We'll never know for sure, but that's what I believe.

I'm also not saying Colbert is bad at talent evaluation.  He's not.  He's adequate as a lead scout or pro personnel man.  He's great at providing input towards decisions.  But I just don't think he's a General Manager.  And he loses sight of the forest amoung the trees on many occasions.